Paved with an unusual coating of serenity and mystery, Lucile Hadžihalilović‘s extraordinary Evolution is in a league of its own. I managed to grab the film director for a while to throw some questions at her.
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Robin Write: So we’re going to talk about the film you made, Evolution, a little bit. Obviously filmmaking from a female perspective. And I know you have in the film world a famous partner in Gapasr Noe. So a lot of people will be happy to hear that.
Lucile Hadžihalilović: I don’t know. It’s a good thing for me though. Yeah. I mean because they might expect the female version of Gaspar, which I’m not.
No, no, that’s right. I mean, the film that you’ve made was I think does have a strangeness to it, but not in the way that Gaspar makes films. So, growing up, what inspired you specifically when you were very young.
Well, I suppose it’s not very original, but I had strong experiences as a teenager. And I began around the age of 13 I went to the cinema where I could see films like the first films of Dario Argento. Or American films. It was very strong experience for me to go in this theater. At that time I was living in Morocco and I was not really supposed to go by the town alone in a cinema.
But I would do it, and watch films among the audience which were usually mostly men. And I thought it was very emotional, whether it was Italian horror movies or Spielberg films, or even Bergman films. And I had very strong emotions watching these films. I thought that was the best way of sharing stories, character, emotion, whatever, with an audience with films.
And then of course, it was only much later than I had an understanding how maybe I could make films. But I guess it just came from these very strong experiences I had when I was a teenager.
And were you not a film editor?
No, no. Well, I am not an editor. Maybe I can sometimes collaborate with other people’s scripts, but that’s writing. But as an editor, it was only at the very beginning. With Gaspar because we had this company together, and we made films at the beginning without money. Producing them ourselves as short films. And then we worked on each other films, and I did the editing for him, and he did the camera for me.
So you enjoy the writing process much more?
Yeah. It’s just then if you want to become to stay as an editor, then you have to practice a lot with the technical part. I would not be able to be an editor, but I really love editing and I think it’s so important of course.
So just to sort of link to Evolution. I was looking at the 2015 Oscars Best Foreign Language Film. Not usually any women filmmakers at all. But one of the submissions was actually your co-writer on Evolution, Alantė Kavaitė. The Summer of Sangailė was not nominated unfortunately. But, how did you meet? How did you decide you wanted to write together?
I knew Alantė, she’s a friend. It came about little by little, because at first I asked her to read a draft of something to get her feedback. She was extremely good at structure, and she’s very kind of obsessive and very precise. Also very inventive. And I realized that she could be a really good partner for writing. I had done a lot on my own before beginning to work with her, but I was kind of a bit lost in it. So I really needed someone to help me to organize it. The cinema she’s making is quite different from mine. But nevertheless, we have some very strong elements in common.
Yeah. I mean, what story did you want to tell then? I know collaboration is different to just writing by yourself. So what started Evolution? The wife and I watched a couple of years ago. We were like, it was one of those films where you say, Yeah, I’ve not seen a film like this before. And it’s not often you can say that now.
Yeah, that’s a great compliment.
Well, yeah. I mean everything’s been done, hasn’t it? So, this was like beautifully shot. You want to go back and watch it again. I’m complimentary when I say perhaps people won’t understand parts the first time. What was your intention when you started writing?
I guess when I start writing it was not exactly about a story. It was more about themes, motifs, or it has a lot to do with a body of course. At the beginning it was not that it was more the hospital and the idea of having something growing in your belly. Then little by little it was a lot about the relationship between a boy and his mother. From that came images and feelings and emotions. I had kind of sensations, and I tried to build up a story where all this could happen.
And I know that’s not the usual way of doing it. Usually you come with a story or with a character more precise. This is why it has been quite a long and difficult process for me to write the script, because it was not the narrative that came first. I really tried to get a narrative, but knew this was the right place for this story to happen. With the seaside and the shore and under the water.
I thought it was extremely cinematic. And symbolic, with the star fish. How do you make a film, with those images in your head, knowing what you want it to look like? How close was it?
Yes, I was very lucky to be able to work with the D.P. of the film. I have worked with him before, so we know each other. I also could see that we had a taste in common. So I thought that even if sometimes I wouldn’t be able to know exactly how I would direct, it was very important that we were really doing the same thing.
He was very open to do it without lights, without additional lights. And the film was shot extremely quickly. So he was also very quick, and I think it’s because we had some tastes in common. And I watched a few films, like Japanese films from 1960s, to help with framing. Just to kind of guide in a way. Also, the idea was because we were shooting on so little money, we decided to not have any camera movement, or that kind of thing.
And like I said, no artificial lighting. So the lights would come from the set itself. It was a very close collaboration with the set designer, who was great. Also, I found someone who could do the shots under the water. A man from these islands, the Canary Islands. He was a diver and a camera man, and he absolutely understood what we were looking for. And he was been able to do those amazing shots we have at the beginning of the film.
Yeah. I was going to ask how you achieved those sequences under the water.
Thanks to the God of cinema, we got to go shoot at this time where the light would go through the water. And so this is how it planned. At first he was a bit, You used to do documentaries, so it was a bit a surprise that we were not looking for, let’s say, clarity. We said we like when there is dirt in the water.
So a friend of mine has written on my website about your film, coincidentally, and also about a film called The Lure, and Blew My Mind.
It’s a Polish film, right?
The Lure is, yeah. But she compared all three for that kind of, well, evolution, and the use of water to almost cleanse, and also that transition. Why do you think it is that, these kind of themes are more prominent in films from female filmmakers? Without sort of segregating you.
I can only speak for myself. I really don’t want to speak for the woman. But, I think, for me, the image of the, let’s say the mermaid, is something I can relate to. And also because I’m very interested in fairytales. I think, of course, there’s the mythology, with the mermaid, so I suppose that I related to.
Yeah, there’s definitely mythology in your film. I’m certainly going to watch it again. Sadly, it’s one of those films that a lot of people haven’t seen.
I know. I think, for me, as an audience, it’s not because the narrative is complicated. I wanted to reach a kind of mystery of the world. It’s about feelings, and I am very interested in ambiguity and ambivalence. I think it’s more interesting when the audience has to involve himself or herself, to find your own path. Have I confused you?
No, no. I think you could say you don’t understand the film, but I want to think about it, and I want to watch it again. Maybe with a different perspective. I mean, my wife watched it, she’s very into symbolism in film. She loves finding layers. So it’s a perfect film for her. And for me it’s a film I want to revisit and ponder on it.
I think it’s not about saying I like it or I don’t like it. I think it’s more maybe about what did you find in it.
Yeah, definitely. With this type of film, it speaks to you, it’s interpretation. The second time you see it, it’s a different film. Third time, something else maybe.
So success wise of the film, I believe you went to the festivals. Toronto international Film Festival. And I believe you won a prize in Sweden as well. What was that festival circuit like?
All the screenings I had been to, it was great because the audience reacted quite strongly. Whether they like it or sometimes they were very angry at the film – which was good. I was so surprised. Festivals are an opportunity to see your film with an audience, or to meet the audience. So that’s what’s always great for me, to see how people were seeing the film.
So what’s next for you? Any plans for the future? Do you think you will you ever work with Gaspar?
No, I don’t work with Gaspar because I want to make films and he wants to make films. I’m not an editor, he is not a cameraman. Of course we talk a lot to each other about our projects. As for me, I hope to shoot a film at the beginning of next year.
Generally speaking, then, what are some of your favorite films made by women?
Oh, I can tell you that I have seen a wonderful film made by a woman. It’s called Atlantique, made by Mati Diop. Have you seen this one?
I haven’t, sadly. I do want to see it. Won the Grand Prix at Cannes.
Yeah, exactly. It’s really a wonder, and it’s really beautiful, deep and touching. That’s really a great film. So fresh in a way, and also different, you can’t put a label on it. A really beautiful film.
There’s a lot of really good films now from female filmmakers. The amount of female talent now, so many each year. It’s great to see.
Yeah, it’s a bit easier, and now it’s been a kind of trend. But I hope it’s going to be more than a trend. That it will be easier for many women to make films.
I never thought that if I had difficulty to make my film, it was because I was a woman. I thought it was because of the kind of film I wanted to make.
I think things are obviously different in France and some of Europe as well. It’s not so much of a problem, like the way the American film market stands.
Yeah. I mean, in France, it seems that we were quite a bit more backing. Also very strong female director figures like Claire Denis.
Let’s hope that America don’t remake your film.
I would be very curious to see that.
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